First Deal Episode with Heshel Mangel

Having a few deals under his belt already, Heshel Mangel describes the challenges of acquiring his recent deal of 32 units in Cincinnati. 

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Originally aired on June 21, 2021

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Your host, Brian Briscoe, has been a general partner in 655 units worth $50 million and has been lead sponsor, asset manager, capital raiser, and key principal on these properties. He has developed a multifamily education community called the Tribe of Titans that helps aspiring investors learn the game, network with other like-minded professionals, and get their apartment investing business to the next level. He is founder of Streamline Capital Group, which will continue to acquire multifamily assets well into the future. He retired as a Lieutenant Colonel in the United States Marine Corps in 2021.

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Heshel Mangel


Heshel Mangel came into this industry with absolutely zero background or knowledge – he had heard about it from a friend who's family was in the industry. At the same time, was really struggling with 9-5 job, working as an employee at a desk and knew change needed to happen, both for himself and my family. He moved back to his hometown Cincinnati, and within 12 months, he was an owner and manager of 52 units with two full-time staff - all in the affordable housing space.  He’s now working with local social services to ensure safe, secure, and affordable housing for his residents.
LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heshelmangel/

Transcript

Welcome And Bigger Mindset Lessons

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Diary and Apartment Investor Podcast. I'm your host, Brian Briscoe. I'm very excited for today's show. It's one of our first deal series episodes. And we have Heschel Mangle on the line with us today, who recently closed on a 32-unit apartment complex in Cincinnati, Ohio, for $1.5 million. And it was a B-class apartment. So that said, Heschel, welcome to the show. Thank you, Brian.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

It's good to be back.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

Yeah, you know, and this is this is interesting. You were one of the first people to come on the show. It's been almost a year, and you were episode 19, which was a long-running number one, you know, as far as downloads for this show. It was the first first one to hit 300 downloads, first one to hit 400 downloads, and the first episode to hit 500 downloads. So, you know, something about you is magical.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

So thanks a lot for being on the show again. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I wish I can take credit for that one. But that uh Joseph, who was the uh the lead on that one, was dropping insights the entire time and and absolutely gold. So yeah, credit to him.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yeah, I mean, that that was absolutely pure gold. I was taking notes. I mean, um, you know, we we've come a little ways ourselves since that that episode recorded, but I was definitely taking notes, and I re-listened to that one a couple of times just to hear what he had said again about scaling and growing your business. But that said, uh, let's talk a little bit more about that episode in detail. What are some key takeaways you had from that and and how did that help you?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, so some things that I took out from that talk with Joseph, and he's been so gracious with his time as well, even post that and continuing the conversation. But he definitely opened my eyes to the idea of just thinking bigger, you know, jumping into bigger opportunities and just open your box and open your mindset a little bit and think bigger and be able to grow bigger. The way that he scaled has been incredible. And to just really know your place, understand your strengths, and then fill the rest of the gaps with great people. Yeah. And both of those, I think, points when you bring them together, really allowed me to continue to operate in that way and just continue to grow and have that mindset of continuing trying to get bigger.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yeah. Well, one gem that I remember from is you asked him a question about doing stuff yourself versus having other people do it. And and his answer was simple. It's like, don't start. He's like, don't start doing that stuff. He's like, have somebody else do that from the beginning. And that that's something that I mean, it's been a year from that conversation, and I probably haven't listened to that episode in you know about six months, but something that I still remember. He just said, hey, just don't start it. He's like, if if it's something that you're going to offload eventually or something you're going to outsource eventually and and you're not good at it, don't start doing it yourself. And that's that's something that uh helped help me as well. I think that was the uh the nail in the coffin for me to actually outsource getting my podcast edited because I was doing all that stuff myself and spending a lot of time on it. And I'm like, you know what? He's right. I shouldn't have even started this. I should have outsourced it from the beginning. But that's it. Let's let's talk a little bit about you and uh tell us a little bit about your background and what got you into multifamily.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Sure. So my background, I'm born and bred here in Cincinnati, Ohio, left at about high school age and did uh made a couple stops around the world, ultimately got married and settled in New York. While I was living in New York, and I was actually a teacher at the time, is when I first got my really my introduction into this whole space in general, and just went aggressively and trying to learn as much as I can about the industry. Did have a couple of friends that were in the that were in this industry and just hearing from them about you know the type of opportunities that it brought them and the lifestyle that it brings them really intrigued me. So just went aggressively from that point to learn as much as I can, speak to as many people as I can. Started doing a couple of smaller projects while I was still living in New York, operating in Cincinnati, which is where I'm from, and then ultimately made the move back to Cincinnati as we were able to grow it out a little bit and be able to scale a little bit better. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, and I remember um when you came on the episode last time, you had accumulated, I think, 55 total units. You know, a couple, if I remember right, a call a couple of small multifamily and a couple larger ones. Can you can you tell us what your portfolio was like then and what it's like now?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Yeah, so at that point there was, if I remember correctly as well, it was a couple of single families and then two apartment buildings. That was the bulk of it. Uh since then, it's been about a year, I say I would say, closed on three other properties since then, and we're getting ready to close one here in about a week on another multifamily.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah. Oh wow, congratulations. You guys have been extremely busy, and that's that's great. So so let's talk about your your why, your big burning why. I think this is an important thing because it's it's what drives us. So, what is your big burning why?

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Yeah, so the why is my family, the opportunity is for my family. Just case in point, um, I was a little bit late to today's meeting, and that was due to taking my my daughter to school today. She was feeling a little bit unwell and had to be taken to school late. And just the opportunity for me to be able to be available and there for my family whenever it's needed is really my why. That drives it every single, every day, and really every decision I try to make within the business is catering to me being available to my family, and that's really what's most important. Um, at the same token is being able to have the opportunity to give and give back to organizations and issues that I believe in is really important to me as well. And when I have the opportunity to be able to give back, it's special.

unknown 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And that that's that aligns very closely to what my why is. I mean, I I started this business three years ago to be able to live close to family, you know, and I'm now in Idaho Falls, which is, you know, close to family. So, you know, we're we're about two blocks away from two of my wife's sisters, you know, slightly different directions, but you know, we're we're close to family. And it was something that my my W-2 job I wouldn't have been able to do. And that big burning why for me had really fueled me. So being available to your kids is huge. Um, and I know they'll thank you for it many years from now, probably not when they're teenagers, but you know, hopefully when they're in their 30s, they'll they'll reach back and thank you for it. But so let's talk about uh this particular deal

Heschel’s Story Portfolio And Why

SPEAKER_02 5:48

itself. Let's uh so 30, 32 units, Cincinnati, and I know it's in the same metro you're in. So let's talk about how you found the deal, first of all.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

So I found the deal through a broker that I've built a relationship with over the last few years. He brought me a different deal originally uh that was owned by the same owner. And uh we decided we weren't gonna pursue that opportunity. But in conversation, we realized that there was actually another property that he owned that he wasn't really interested in selling at the time. But uh we were able to continue to you know stay in touch and follow up with that. And eventually we were able to come to terms and secure the contract for this property, which is one that we ultimately closed on.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Nice, nice. Now, now how long how long did you know this broker before you know he brought you that first deal?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

It's been at least two years. And we uh we always stay in touch. Uh, you know, we're always staying in touch in terms of what opportunities are out there. And we've done a couple of projects and worked together on some other things in the past, but this is the first multifamily deal that we actually close together. But we've you know, always staying in touch and in contact over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Yeah, that that's a big thing. I mean, it's nice to have a lot of brokers, and it's I I think it's kind of hard for the newer investor to build that broker relationship. I think a lot of brokers are closed off, but you know, basically two years since you knew him before you know you close your first big multifamily deal. And I don't think that's atypical. I think there's a lot of people who it takes a long time to build those relationships of trust, you know, and that's that's something for a lot of people that's a struggle at first, is to be able to get that relationship with the broker. Now, what what other type of stuff did you do? I mean, what are you said you had other business with him? What other type of stuff did you do with him?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Well, I actually was involved with a single family deal with him as well. And we've done some work on a couple of a couple of rehabs, uh trying to remember exactly which property it was. And there was another deal actually that we were working on, a large multifamily deal that we almost secured the contract, and then it was kind of tucked away from under us at the last minute. But we've definitely had, you know, cross paths and done a few different things over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Okay. All right. So so all all good things, you know, and and I mean the fact that you had an LOI in and almost got a contract previously, you know, he he knew that you guys were were serious, he knew you were ready. You had to, and in your case, you're you're different than than people come on the first deal because this is not your first deal, where you've had you had a lot of experience prior to to kind of gain that credibility with the broker. So broker brought you a deal, wasn't the right one for you, and you ended up, you know, working with the broker and the owner to to get another one of the owner's properties under contract. Right. So yeah. All right. So tell us about the property, tell us about the business plan.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

So it's it's it's 32 units. Now, the actual the bulk of the property is actually 30 units, and there's a duplex uh a few minutes away that was that was you know included as part of the sale. And I do want to say that although this wasn't my first deal, there are aspects of it that are the first, and there's always things that you can learn first from each deal. And there's I'm sure there'll be things on every deal that will be the first time for that deal. Uh the big thing for me in this deal was it's the first time that that I was securing the debt, you know, with my own balance sheet, which ultimately we we ran into some issues towards the end and definitely some things that we learned for the future. But it was it's is it's a huge step to being able to continue to scale and you know bring in new investors and partners once you can capitalize on that ability.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Nice, nice. So um it's a B class, it's a 30-unit, is there a renovation? Is this a value add plan? Is it a buy and hold? What's what's your play on this one?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Yeah, so the the the beauty of this property is that it was cash flowing uh from day one. And that's what we are looking to do with our properties. We want it to be cash flowing on day one, um, and at the same time be able to continue to add value and and give you know a higher rate of return for our investors. And then the the third metric that we look at before buying the property is that at the end of it, our entire basis with after renovations and everything we do is going to be below the actual property value. So we want to be able to have it cash flowing right away, increase the value and be in it for less than what it's worth. And this one hits all those three boxes where it was, you know, a very stable cash-flowing property right away. We've started going in there and already making improvements, both on the interiors and exteriors, adding value to the existing residents and future residents. And uh ultimately we'll we'll be in it for less than what its value is.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Now, no, I I like that because the the things you say, the things that you just said are are things that bring good returns, but also mitigate risk. You know, so so you're looking at this from both angles. After everything's said and done, you want the basis to be lower than the property price. You know, that that's nice for two reasons. Number one, like I said, it just mitigates the risk. I mean, there's low risk there of loss of money. You're buying a cash-flowing asset, you know, once again, very low risk of loss because you know the cash is already coming in and you're already able to cover your debt service and hopefully pay your investors back a little bit. And then the value add portion, you know, if you do that properly and you're looking at the comps properly, that's a way where you guys can force the appreciation. And what I didn't hear you say, and I love this, is that you're banking on market appreciation. You know, it'll it'll probably happen, but you know, that the three things you said are entirely under your control. And, you know, so you're you're mitigating risk and you're able to provide solid returns. And if the market appreciates, it likely will. You know, that's just icing on the cake. So so good on that

Finding The Deal And Business Plan

SPEAKER_02 11:16

one. All right. So let's let's talk about the capital raise. How much did you raise for this? And how much did you uh contribute yourself?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yes, we raised about $500,000. 50 of that was from myself and 450 came from our partners. And that was the process of of raising the capital. And, you know, thankfully, we started at a place where we already had uh mutual understanding and mutual respect for each other. And that makes it a lot easier to run a deal when you know who your partners are and everybody's comfortable working with each other. Um, so it was no real sales pitch in terms of having to sell myself or the way you know that we would operate the deal, because we all had that common ground already. So, you know, that that's really been helpful for me and and also in the in future deals in the deal that that we're closing now and and probably for the foreseeable future um is the way I'll go about it. It's just people within my existing network or you know, an existing investor telling their friend or their relative, hey, I've done this deal with them. I think this is something you would be interested in, um, and kind of letting the deal speak for itself.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's the very important point. You know, you you had credibility with these people prior to asking them to invest. And I think, you know, a common mistake that a lot of people make is they have the idea that if you have a good deal, the money will come. I think it's the opposite. You know, you have to have the relationship with investors. You have to have that credibility with investors before you pitch them that good deal, or that money's not going to come. So you you had fostered relationships with people. They trusted you. And something that I also think is important is you know, you're putting your own money into the deal. You know, so a $500,000 raise, you've got 10% of the total capital stack there. And you can basically say, hey, I'm investing $50,000 of my own money. Will you invest with me? And that's that's a lot different than I've got a project and I want you to invest. Will you please give me some money to invest? So good, good. I think there's there's a lot, a lot of little gold nuggets there in what you said, fostering the relationships and then being able to capitalize on the relationships you'd already built and the trust and confidence you'd already built with people.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah. And I think if for for someone who's listening to this and maybe thinking, like, oh, I've never done a deal before, how do I build that credibility? Credibility is not only built from, I think, a previous deal that you might have done with this person or something else. You know, you can build credibility and trust uh in many ways. Sometimes you can even build credibility and trust from deals that you did not do, which is very important. And I think that we don't see it enough of people talking about deals that they didn't do. And that builds trust as well when they see that you're you're honest in your underwriting, you're honest in your reporting, and you're explaining to people why this deal you didn't think would be a good opportunity for them to get into. You know, that builds trust as well. And then, you know, in your everyday just relationships and the way you deal with people and the way you conduct your lifestyle, you know, builds that trust and credibility as well. So, you know, it's not it's not only from, oh, I've done 10 deals, look at me, trust me. Because, you know, and there are unfortunately probably people that have done 10, 20 deals that are not trustworthy. So I would say, you know, look past just the amount of experience that you may think you have or don't have and look for ways, really just be, you know, honest and personable and ultimately you'll end up building the trust.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Yeah, I think I think that's huge. I mean, especially for the the newcomer, you know, it's it's something where you can take your previous life experiences, your previous life skills, your previous life's relate relationships and apply them to you know the multifamily, the apartment investing business. And that's something that you you said very, very eloquently, you know, you can just be a good person, be trustworthy. And that by itself is gonna go a long way in being able to attract capital when it's time to do that. So uh well, let's let's talk about uh closing.

Raising Capital Through Credibility

SPEAKER_02 15:05

You mentioned earlier there were some hitches with with closing. Uh let's talk about the closing process, uh, some of the hitches and how you guys overcame those.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Yeah, so the closing process was going uh quite smooth. And then I want to say about three days after closing was scheduled, when you get a message from the lender like, hey, actually we need to change some things. And that threw quite a wrench into the deal. Um we had quite a lot of uh of my own personal money already locked up in the deal in earnest money and due diligence money and legal fees and everything else. And you know, they they wanted to come at the end after we were meant to close and changing terms. And I don't know exactly why that occurred. You know, the the entire process was a transparent process. I think ultimately there are many different departments and and and levels and hierarchy within a bank structure, and things can be a little bit of broken telephone, I think, when you go up and down the totem pole. Yeah, right, right. Um and you know, there's only one level that's the face of the deal, that's communicating with you as the as the customer, and many levels beyond that that uh don't interface with the customer. And especially when you're dealing with a bank that's relationship-based, it's you want it's important to have relationships with the people that are ultimately making the decisions.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

Now, what what terms what terms did they change and how did that affect you know you going forward? I mean, were they significant enough to make you pause and say, can we still do this deal? Or what type of terms did they change on this?

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah, there were definitely moments where there was pause of can we still do this deal? And you know, I reiterated to them and really all the parties the entire time is at the end of the day, I'm a fiduciary for my investors' money. And if it's not going to be good for them, we're gonna walk away. You know, I personally I had money in the deal that I would have lost. But at the end of the day, they had to understand that the deal has to work for those who have financial interest in the deal and for and for those that I'm representing. And if it doesn't work for them, we can't do it. And I ultimately I think they appreciated that and and we were able to continue to finagle around and negotiate both with them and the and the owner to get the deal done in a manner that worked for everybody. Um, but there definitely were moments throughout it that where we weren't sure if the deal was going to get was gonna get done. They wanted more capital, first of all, and a reserve account. They wanted some extra contingencies because being that this was the first deal that I was guaranteeing on my own, they they decided they wanted a lot a lot more contingencies, and I don't know even know exactly exactly what, but ultimately we were able to come to an agreement as to you know how much we should put down in reserve, what other contingencies were gonna be, and how we were gonna kind of operate the uh the deal going forward. And then, you know, they they wanted to do another appraisal and another report and another report. Um so that kind of took a bit. And at that point, a lot of it, a lot of it was just time because at that point we were out of contract. And the owner at that point said, like, you know, the contract is over. You know, he's taking the earnest money. Um, and he's like, Listen, the deal is over. If you want to get the deal back, you know, meet me at this time in this place. We'll have a half-hour chat, and then at the end of it, we'll know are we closing or not.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Uh, you know, let's lay it all on the table. And we did that. And he was very responsive and appreciative of me showing up and and being honest with exactly what was going on. And I think that calmed him down as to our ability to close at that point. And uh so once we were able to get him back in, the investors had to have buy-in again because at that point the bank had had had requested that those investors should uh give them some more information about their background as well. Um, so we had their buy-in, and and at that point, you know, then we were able to close.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Right, nice. Yeah, so so yeah, significant hitches. I mean, you did this basically made the deal fall out of contract. And I mean, you you risked your earnest money. I mean, they they call it risk capital for a reason because it's always a risk. I mean, you've paid some money for the due due diligence, you probably paid loan application fees, and obviously the earnest money, which the seller is entitled to, you know, if you don't close. So there's obviously you know lots of risk there, but end of the day, you were able to you know bring all parties to the table and hey, let's get this thing done. And uh what what what I think, I mean, most sellers, you know, and I I've been you know a seller a couple of times, but most sellers, you know, they they are obviously interested in getting the best price possible, but they don't want to be strung out either. You know, and that that's that's kind of a big thing. You know, if you can't close in the contract period, you know, the question that they're gonna be asking themselves is if I give them another chance, are they going to be able to close it? You know, because the last thing they want is to have their property tied up for an extended period of time. So it sounds like you went back to the table with them, you convinced them that you're able to, you're going to be able to close and got this across the finish line.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah. So, you know, a couple of things there, and that was really well how you put it all together. But the understanding there are multiple parties involved and having to keep all the pieces glued together, you know, from the lender to the owner to the investors, you know, there's uh the insurance company, the legal title, everybody, just keeping all the people involved was super important and being transparent with everybody about exactly what's going on was super important. And from the owner side of it, yeah. I mean, uh, you know, and and it added another level that they were actually relying on this clothing for a 1031 that that that the owner was doing. So, you know, they needed to be sure that this was going to close because they have time frames, you know, and they have a time that they have to keep to. So just making sure that everybody is is aware of what's going on and keeping everybody involved was key to being able to actually bring this back to closing.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

All right. Well, congratulations on getting that across the finish line and and negotiating the the actual finish on that one. So um, so let's talk about uh the first step after closing.

Lender Surprises And Saving The Close

SPEAKER_02 20:48

You closed in April, it's June. How have things gone so far?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, I mean, thank God it's gone really well. Uh the first thing that we do after closing is we have a questionnaire we give to all the residents. We want their feedback as to what is good, what isn't good, why they like living there, what would they want to see changed. And we let them tell us kind of what they would have wanted to see out of the property and out of the community that they live in. Um so obviously, as we do due diligence, you know, we're going through and and creating our own list of different improvements we want to make on the property, both interior and exterior. Um, and then we take their list as well, and we are able to get a good idea as to both from our perspective as well as current residents and locals and what their perspective is. And, you know, thankfully we've been able to go ahead and really implement that plan so far really well. The bulk of it is has actually been so far exterior improvements, power washing, landscaping, really making the exterior, clean, you know, putting up a new a new sign, uh, you know, the rebranding of it, and cleaning the uh and filling in you know potholes in the driveway. Things that the residents have really been able to see that that you know they've come in and have have been able to deliver on on what they have told us they were going to do. Um, and they're listening to. Us and people see they drive by, they come by, and they see that it's it's being taken care of well. And then at the same time, interior improvements. So there were, you know, if there were pressing needs from individual residents that I told us that these, you know, they've had these issues or that issues. So those were the first things that were that we were able to tackle on the interiors, just fixing maintenance issues that had then built up over time. And then the third part of it is then rehabbing the vacant units and improving those to be able to get higher rents.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah, really nice there. And there's something I really like. You guys involved your tenants, you know, and this is that there's something that can be said about building a community. You know, if if your tenants are involved, they're more likely to renew, you know, and that's that's huge from a bottom line standpoint. I mean, number one, it helps build community. You know, if you have tenants who've been there, they make relationships with their neighbors and it makes them less likely to leave. And for your bottom line, I think the the most expensive thing that happens operating an apartment building is when people move out. Because when people move out, you're gonna spend number one, you're gonna have an empty unit with nobody paying rent. And number two, there are gonna be churn costs. You know, you're gonna go in, you're gonna do spending costs cleaning, you're gonna spend costs fixing up minor things. And you know, if you can get the tenant to stay in for a year or sign a renewal, that saves you a lot of money and keeps keeps money coming in as well. So involving your tenants, I think it's a smart move. I think the curb appeal goes a long way to showing the tenants that uh that you guys are going to make that you care about the place. You know, you want to make it look better, and and they're gonna see that immediately. You know, they're gonna see that it's it's getting better. And once again, that makes it more likely to stay. I don't I don't think curb appeal directly contributes to your NOI by bringing more money in, but it definitely contributes by you know making people a little more likely to stay there longer. So so we talked about the the project, you know, how you closed on it and and what you've done since then. So the question I always like to ask everybody is what's next for you? Where are you going from here?

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yeah, so we're continuing to try to build both obviously on that deal as well as another deals. As I mentioned, we are closing another deal here in about uh in about a a week or two, hopefully before the end of the month. You know, so we're continuing to look for for these type of deals that that you know meet that that criteria. It's it's cash flowing, there's room for value to be added, and that we can be in for less and it's value. So those those three are are really important for the new deals that we're looking for. And really, as as Joseph had had told us, you know, a year ago, we're trying to think bigger. The last couple of deals we've been in have been about this size, you know, the 30, 35 units. And we're trying to to think bigger and and be able to scale bigger and and look for bigger properties. Yeah, that's that's where we hope to be heading.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yeah, love it, love it. Yeah, and and you got a really good base, you know, a couple of you know, 20, 30 unit properties. Uh, I'm guessing your unit count right in right now is you know triple digit, you know, low triple digits. So being able to get go go to that next step. Um, you got a very solid base to be able to push the envelope a little more. All

Resident Feedback Plan And What’s Next

SPEAKER_02 24:52

right. So, what advice would you give an aspiring investor who is you know maybe six to twelve months out from getting their first deal?

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Network, you know, build relationships with people. That's ultimately what drives the business is get out there now. You can get out there even more and meet people, show your face, build relationships, build real relationships, be consistent, I think is a huge thing. There's this business has ups and downs, and there's no guarantees from one day to the next. Every day is different, but just try to go out there, be consistent and and find common ground with service people around you, with other people in the industry, uh, where you can add value to people and and ultimately just build relationships with people.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah, yeah, that's that's solid. I mean, it it's definitely a relationship business, you know, on on all aspects, you know, from from you to your investors, from you to your lender, from you to the seller, the brokers, from even the service providers, the property managers, and everybody else involved. It's a team sport and you've got to keep that team together. So building the network, maintaining those relationships is is huge. Great, great tip. All right. And last question how can listeners learn more about you?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

I'm available on LinkedIn at HashvilleMangel is my handle. Uh, that's probably the uh the best way to go about finding me.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

All right. Sounds good. And we'll put a link to that in the show notes. So if anybody's interested in reaching out to him, tap the link to his LinkedIn profile. And incidentally, that's where you know Heshel and I first met was on LinkedIn. I I think he responded to a post I put out, a feeler I put out, you know, a year ago, you know, looking for for people who wanted to come on podcasts. So that said, you know, Heschel, thank you so, so much for coming on the show. This was great. And it's it's been great catching up and seeing what you've done in the last year. So thank you very much. Thanks for listening to the Diary of an Apartment Investor Podcast by the Tribe of Titans. If you're still listening, you obviously liked it. So go ahead and subscribe to the podcast, leave a five-star rating and review if you haven't already, and then make sure to check out our YouTube channel, which incidentally has a ton of video content that you'll also enjoy and learn from. Now, if you're interested in being on the show, go to our website, Diary of an Apartment Investor.com, and fill out the questionnaire on the website. And for more educational content and for more information about our educational community, check us out at the Tribe of Titans.info.